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|  | Topic : H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime |  |
| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,788 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Feb 2014 - 03:44 Post title : H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime | | |
That's the conclusion I've come to after a good deal of research and experimentation (much to the amusement of another member here ;-), and if any of you have better news regarding H4 LED bulbs - PLEASE - let's hear it! Primary problems are light pattern and brightness; the only DOT-approved LED solutions I could find are just a bit pricey:
Back to H4 bulbs..... Ran across a "plug-n-play 30w CREE H4 bulb" (center, above) on eBay. Against advice and better judgement, curiosity got the better of me and I kissed $20 bucks goodbye. On the up side, vendor sent me two of 'em by mistake. On the down side, both are useless as headlights.
Plug-n-play? Not so fast. I've learned that vehicles come with H4 sockets in at least three configurations - and they only have three terminals. Triumph uses the configuration closest to a "standard" H4 near as I can tell - but the LED bulb had high beam and ground reversed, so an adapter was necessary. (H4 LED vendors who bother providing a pinout all seem to use the same reversed high/ground for some reason - at least all the H4 LEDs I could find had same pinout as the sorry example I wasted $20 on.)
CREE is a manufacturer of LEDs with a reputation for quality and superior output; their products are typically flat, yellow, surface-mount devices. The wattage ratings for many multiple-LED products is worthless because of a clever way to fudge specs: multiply LED draw by number of LEDs. The "30w" bulb I bought actually draws less than .2a@12v=2.4w total from 6 identical LEDs, less than 1/10th of advertised spec. and nowhere near true. We'll be kind and say "30w" was a typo, should be 3w. By comparison, the other H4 bulb pictured above with 13 LEDs advertised as 7w is much closer to the truth using that fudge formula, especially if central LED is 5w as they say (would draw just over .4a@12v alone).
Whereas wattage is easy to measure and comprehend, light output in lumens (and pattern) is not, thus the real-world test below. Correct adjustment (at least here in the States) should have top of low beam at elevation equal to measurement from floor to center of headlight at a distance of 25-feet (7.62 meters), so this was the test setup. Target is an 8-foot-wide projector screen at 25-feet.
Adjusted my headlight a wee bit high; factory setting was about the same distance low. Pattern is clearly a "V"-shape with rise illuminating RH side as it should.
Clearly the H4 LED has no pattern whatsoever, and no beam to speak of. The "30w" bulb used here had all LEDs on, low beam and high beam, with high beam just a tiny bit brighter - but not enough to notice or matter, as you can see.
The "7w" model pictured at top of post claims a single 5w CREE LED in the center which is off with low beam leaving the 12 LEDs around its perimeter to do the job. Central 5w LED is under a lens, just as the two in center of my 3w model are, but problem would be just the same: No low bean cutoff pattern, no directed beam to speak of (although it certainly should be much brighter). Won't be buying one to find out, that's for sure, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to waste money on these.
At least I got my headlight adjusted.....
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| | | PapaSmurfMC | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 03/10/2013 | | Posts | : | 871 | | Location | : | Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Feb 2014 - 04:29 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | | OUTSTANDING writeup and visuals, Mac! 
Maybe you can sell those bulbs on ebay as H4 socket testers. 
| 2013 Blue Marble Haze Thunderbird 1600 ABS
2009 Black Bonneville A1 ("Mag")
Buncha farkles
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| | | Dags | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 01/11/2013 | | Posts | : | 468 | | Location | : | N.S.W, Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Feb 2014 - 07:27 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | | Thanks for the research and write up MotorMac. 
| Dags
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| | | Southern_Ranger | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 14/05/2013 | | Posts | : | 368 | | Location | : | Aylesbury, Bucks, United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 25 Feb 2014 - 07:32 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | | Yes top class review with pictures! I'm using a similar led to that SMD cree as a reverse light on my car, works great for that. I've been wondering about headlights, so you saved me some time and money
Looking at them again its not that the output isn't there, its the physical layout of the LED wafers, you would need specifically designed reflectors.
Sounds like HID is the way to go without a new headlight.
| 1700 Supercharged TBird. Southern Ranger, AKA John
| | Post edited by Southern_Ranger on 25 Feb 2014 - 07:38 |
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Feb 2014 - 08:40 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: Dags) | | | Dags wrote:
Thanks for the research and write up MotorMac. |
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Thanks for the EXCELLENT research and BRILLIANT ( No Pun There) write up MotorMac. clears up a lot of the sales confusion.
|  May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
| | Post edited by GerPa on 25 Feb 2014 - 08:41 |
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,788 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 25 Feb 2014 - 18:00 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: Southern_Ranger) | | | Thanks all, least I can do is add my 2 cents to the wealth of info I've learned here. Even tho I'll be shipping this H4 LED to PapaSmurf soon (COD) it's been fun experimenting with the idea.
Southern, you nailed it. Output is quite impressive, but organizing all that light into a beam - then cutting off top for low beam pattern - seems to be the whole problem. The Kuryakyn uses a straightforward approach by simply dividing reflector in half, as does the Nolden x2. The Harley one appears to use lenses, but I've yet to see any of these in use. A conventional filament (halogen) starts with a white-hot point of light, but the high-output CREEs have a much broader surface area that is hard to project. Had one here that was about .75" square and extremely bright but even behind its enormous lens the light goes everywhere - no well-defined beam and not practical for road use, you'd be blinding every oncoming driver.
The other thing that puzzled me were the enormous heat sinks attached to these off-road flood lights. LEDs are not known to produce much heat, but apparently they are affected by heat which can diminish output, thus the fans and heatsink.
HID is a type of arc lamp, too much going on there for me. I have to believe somebody somewhere will figure out a solution for LED, perhaps a cone-shaped device or some sort of polarizing lens?
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| | | PapaSmurfMC | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 03/10/2013 | | Posts | : | 871 | | Location | : | Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Feb 2014 - 05:53 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | | MotorMac wrote:
Thanks all, least I can do is add my 2 cents to the wealth of info I've learned here. Even tho I'll be shipping this H4 LED to PapaSmurf soon (COD) it's been fun experimenting with the idea.
-snip-
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Send 'em! I know exactly what to do with them:
| 2013 Blue Marble Haze Thunderbird 1600 ABS
2009 Black Bonneville A1 ("Mag")
Buncha farkles
| | Post edited by PapaSmurfMC on 26 Feb 2014 - 05:56 |
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| | | Terota66 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/11/2013 | | Posts | : | 505 | | Location | : | Nova Scotia, Canada |
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| | Posted : 26 Feb 2014 - 15:12 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | | I've done a little research on headlight LED's, this one looks like it should fit and I'll be trying it this spring on my T-bird which I'm goning to need 2 for my Storm
It looks exactly like the Harley one without HARLEY DAVIDSON on the inside of the light
Link
| 2013 Thunderbird Storm ABS
HardStreets
LED Headlights
Short Tors & tune
K&N air filter
Mustang Vintage 2 Up Seat
Scorpion Alarm
| | Post edited by Terota66 on 26 Feb 2014 - 15:26 |
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,788 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 26 Feb 2014 - 16:14 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: PapaSmurfMC) | | | A cob light! I guess this means you want both of 'em then, eh?
BTW: LEDs were not CREEs - not 30w, not "plug/play", not CREEs.
I want to see that "Harley" light in action. Thanks for posting link to these.
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| | | matt79 | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/04/2014 | | Posts | : | 1 | | Location | : | Los Angeles, California, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Apr 2014 - 04:01 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | | I ve got a set of 80W H4 LED bulbs from Link last week... Just waiting to install them.. I plan on first taking a picture from a distance of the stock bulbs, then replacing one, take a pic from same distance and then both.. take pic. Not quite scientific, but... meets my standaard!
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| | | PapaSmurfMC | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 03/10/2013 | | Posts | : | 871 | | Location | : | Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Apr 2014 - 04:21 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: matt79) | | | matt79 wrote:
I ve got a set of 80W H4 LED bulbs from Link last week... Just waiting to install them.. I plan on first taking a picture from a distance of the stock bulbs, then replacing one, take a pic from same distance and then both.. take pic. Not quite scientific, but... meets my standaard! |
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It says 360 degree light pattern. So, 50% of the light goes UP?
OK, seriously this time. These lamps yield 980lm and the 80W of LEDs at 12V will draw 6.7A per lamp. A halogen H4 bulb will give you around 1100lm of light at 60W, drawing 5A per lamp. LED bulb is less light and eats more power; looks real cool but what's the attraction?
| 2013 Blue Marble Haze Thunderbird 1600 ABS
2009 Black Bonneville A1 ("Mag")
Buncha farkles
| | Post edited by PapaSmurfMC on 06 Apr 2014 - 04:44 |
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| | | MotorMac | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/08/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,788 | | Location | : | Nor Cal, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Apr 2014 - 15:10 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: PapaSmurfMC) | | | Get your money back!
PapaSmurf's calculations are based on the bogus 80w claim.
That'd draw over 6 amps. These draw about 1a = 12w.
Real problem is lack of direction - beam - they're useless, unless you like corn. (Good one, PS, cracks me up every time I see it!)
Watts as a measure of brightness was valid for incandescent bulbs; single filament, higher wattage = brighter bulb.
LEDs can be used at any voltage by adjusting value of resistor, and they can be wired in series or parallel. Wattage is meaningless in terms of brightness.
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| | | PapaSmurfMC | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 03/10/2013 | | Posts | : | 871 | | Location | : | Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, United States |
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| | Posted : 07 Apr 2014 - 04:34 Post title : Re: H4 LED Headlight - Not Ready for Primetime (Re: MotorMac) | | |
MotorMac wrote:
Get your money back!
PapaSmurf's calculations are based on the bogus 80w claim.
That'd draw over 6 amps. These draw about 1a = 12w.
Real problem is lack of direction - beam - they're useless, unless you like corn. (Good one, PS, cracks me up every time I see it!)
Watts as a measure of brightness was valid for incandescent bulbs; single filament, higher wattage = brighter bulb.
LEDs can be used at any voltage by adjusting value of resistor, and they can be wired in series or parallel. Wattage is meaningless in terms of brightness.
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Yes, Mac's right; I was using the bogus 80W claim and it is bogus because even though this lamp has sixteen 5W LEDs in it (16 * 5W = 80W), they're way under-driven, probably because of all the heat that would be generated at a higher power. Once I actually read the description of the lamp, I saw that it says "Power Consumption: 10.5W (80W is not the real working power but is is the rating power.)".
With a working power of 10.5W, this lamp will draw only 875ma at 12V. The CREE spec shows 93lm per watt, so that comes to 976.5lm for 10.5W, which jives with the lamp description of 980lm.
The CREE LED spec is here: Link , for anyone who is interested.
They really do seem to be pitching these lamps for fog lights and they're probably fine for that but I don't think they'll do well in a headlight.
| 2013 Blue Marble Haze Thunderbird 1600 ABS
2009 Black Bonneville A1 ("Mag")
Buncha farkles
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