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|  | Topic : 12000 mile overhaul necessary or not. ???? |  |
| | | Linkdog | | Thor |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,921 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 20:52 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | | OK, so the best bet is to call the dealer or dealers to find out how large their assortment is in stock before you tear down and measure so your not down for a week or two. Sure would be nice if you could compress the springs and swap the shims WITHOUT removing the cams. From what I've read in the SM the head and the "cam ladder" are machined as one unit, they are the bearing surfaces and if you bugger one up you're screwed and you need a complete head assy.$$$$$ I'd rather see bearing shells instead but I'm no engineer.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,404 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 22:49 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: Linkdog) | | |
Linkdog wrote:
Great pic. I wondered what was really under there. My question is the shims if you need them. Do they (Triumph ) offer a shim pack or do you buy them individually? Do they keep them in stock or do you have to order them and wait with a bird torn down for weeks? |
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My dealer offered an exchange deal from the workshop, but here is a tip, take your verniers or micrometer with you and check what they give you because I got home and found they weren't what I had asked for. Luckily they still put me in spec.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it 
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,404 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 22:55 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: Linkdog) | | |
Linkdog wrote:
OK, so the best bet is to call the dealer or dealers to find out how large their assortment is in stock before you tear down and measure so your not down for a week or two. Sure would be nice if you could compress the springs and swap the shims WITHOUT removing the cams. From what I've read in the SM the head and the "cam ladder" are machined as one unit, they are the bearing surfaces and if you bugger one up you're screwed and you need a complete head assy.$$$$$ I'd rather see bearing shells instead but I'm no engineer. |
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The shims sit in a recess on top of the bucket, I don't know how you would compress this and leave room to get the shim out, especially on the inner valves as the ladder covers most of the bucket and lobe. It is hard enough getting a feeler gauge in.
The ladders are no biggy, just torque them down as per instructions with a small torque wrench.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 11 Jan 2014 - 23:04 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: Linkdog) | | | The really bad news about the shim over bucket system is,the side with the size stamped on it, always faces down so ya don't know what it is until ya remove it. A reputable dealer will usually have an assortment in stock to cover all the bases when they do the job,and many times will swap the size you have for the size you need.But that's a reputable dealer.Unfortunately,there are more unreputable dealers than there are reputable dealers. Dave!!!
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| | | Linkdog | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,921 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 02:08 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | | Yep, I read the Sm again. You have to find out what shim is in there to start with and then calculate what you need from your recordings.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 03:18 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: Linkdog) | | | See!! Ya just learned somethin new! We'll make a mechanic out of you yet Linkdog.  However,the BILL for all this technical training is gonna be astromonical. Dave!!!
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 04:27 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
BigSmiley: However,the BILL for all this technical training is gonna be astromonical. Dave!!! |
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 Dave Dave
 WTF. Dont go out in the wind. All them Tickets will blow off Ya
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS  ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 10:01 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: GerPa) | | | I see you're learning how to break balls Gerry! I'm impressed! Soooooooooo!!!! Since you too are getting an education,in "BALL BREAKING" YOU'RE bill will also be forth coming. Just remember! Me DUMB POLOCK, me no STUPID POLOCK!! Dave!!!
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 10:53 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | | Hang in there Dave, at least you still have the sense of humour
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 13:29 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: GerPa) | | | What's a "SENSE OF HUMOR"??????? Dave!!!
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| | | Linkdog | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/02/2011 | | Posts | : | 2,921 | | Location | : | Groveland, FL., United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 14:37 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1 | | | It's what the guy has who invented the shim and bucket.
| Never drink from a cow with one udder! 2010 1600 Blue&White ( of course ) Long TORS and HP filter.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 13 Jan 2014 - 17:37 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: Linkdog | | |
Linkdog wrote:
It's what the guy has who invented the shim and bucket. |
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Maybe so. But ya gotta admit,it works. And I'll betcha,after his invention, he has no sense of humor at all. He's probably in the nut house cuttin out paper dolls. Dave!!!
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| | | ironjack64 | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 29/07/2013 | | Posts | : | 38 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 21 Jan 2014 - 04:59 Post title : Re: 1200 mile overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: STORMRIDER69) | | | I thought I would add my two cents here. I have a 2012 Tbird, and have run nothing but Amsoil synthetic with a K&N filter, and I have yet to experience any of the noise described above. I use Amsoil in all my motors - two wheel and four wheel, and it works very well for me. Without getting into a pissing match, synthetic was mainly developed for better lubrication and a reduction in wear, not for economy. It works because all the molecules were engineered to be of the same size, whereas regular oil has many different sized molecules, and the smallest ones burn off first and subsequently start making the oil "dirty". I have Amsoil synthetic in my F-150, and after 6000 miles the oil is still honey colored. I am retired and don't drive it to work anymore, but it does get driven hard to Albuquerque, NM twice a year to visit my daughter, a 2500 mile round trip, and little to no oil is used on that trip. Everyone make your own decision, but I will never switch back to regular oil on any motor.
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| | | GerPa | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 10/12/2011 | | Posts | : | 1,919 | | Location | : | Mackay, Central Queensland, Australia |
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| | Posted : 21 Jan 2014 - 06:28 Post title : Re: 1200 mile overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: ironjack64) | | | Orrrrrrrrrrr Fuck . Here we go again
ps.by the way Larry I agree 1000000000000000000000000000000000000% or around about that much
| May-2011-1600, 20306 Tune, Mustang Vintage Solo Seat, Meerkat Cat Bypass, + Meerkat Modified Short TORS ,K&N Air Cleaner,K&N Oil Filter, JBQ lifting system, Gold Plug Magnetic Sump Plug,Dart Fly screen, Rivco Risers, GiPro Gear Indicator, Breakaway Cruise Control, Avon ISO Grips, Scorpion Western Low Handlebars, Kury Switchblade Pegs, Garmin Zumo390LM,Michelin RC2 on Front RC 3 on ,Modified Rear Drive Pulley Hub Bearings (Mat1600/Alex4 Modification) Front Susp: Std & 7.5W Oil /126mm Air Gap & Rear:Hagon Nitro's with 26Kg/cm Springs + Lots of other "Bling" stuff.
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| | | gwight | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 26/04/2011 | | Posts | : | 761 | | Location | : | Broken Hill, N.S.W., Australia |
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| | Posted : 21 Jan 2014 - 07:36 Post title : Re: 1200 mile overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: ironjack64) | | | It might be "honey" coloured on the dipstick, I bet it's firkin black if ya drop it out !
Personally, I wouldn't let my oil go 6,000ml / 10,000 km synthetic or mineral. What say you, Dave ??
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| | | intimidator32 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/05/2012 | | Posts | : | 913 | | Location | : | lexington, ky, United States |
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| | Posted : 21 Jan 2014 - 11:50 Post title : Re: 1200 mile overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: gwight) | | | I use mobil1 extended performance 5w30 full synthetic in my truck and change every 10,000 miles and oil still looks clean when i do change it, not as clean as new but a lot cleaner than regular oil with 3,000 miles and my truck is 14 years old.
| currently on a slow Harley but will have another Triumph eventually 
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 21 Jan 2014 - 19:12 Post title : Re: 1200 mile overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: gwight) | | | You're right Guido.No matter what oil you use,or how many miles it's been in there,it almost always comes out black,which means it's doin its' job.The life of oil depends on how much use it gets,and"IF" it's allowed to reach full operating temperature.One of the biggest problems with oil is when a vehicle is driven for shot hops and then shut off,repeatedly.THAT'S when the oil MUST be changed more often,no matter what type or weight is being used.Hence,if the vehicle is CONSTANTLy running,like a Police unit or Taxi cab,it can go longer intervals. Now IF you pull a dip stick and see white on it,or you smell raw fuel in the oil [like carburetors,fuel injectors leak too],you had better change that oil ASAP because that's moisture which attacks the babbit on the bearings,[destroying em],plugs up the oil return holes,restricting the flow back to the sump [just like not having enough oil in the motor],plugs up the ring lands so oil doesn't lube the rings,prematurely wearing the rings and cylinder walls,not to mention the top end,valves,rockers,cam and respective bearings.Raw fuel also takes the body out of oil and thins it out big time, almost like running water.And again,this can happen no matter what oil you're using.
So the bottom line is to change the oil/filter,when it's HOT,not just warm, and do it within a reasonable period of time or mileage.6000 miles is not unheard of as long as it stays fairly clean and has body. [it doesn't feel like water]
There's no question that synthetic oil is good,but why would you pay three times the amount for somethin that will work just as well for a lot less money.And regarding the so called "TIGHTER TOLERANCES",they're NOT tighter,they're actually looser so the motor can spin more freely,making more HP as well as economy.I learned that many years ago when I was taught by some of the best engine builders in the area.
But again,each to his own.And I'm NOT tellin anyone what to use or what NOT to use.I'll tell ya what I use,but the rest is up to you. Dummy Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 21 Jan 2014 - 19:28 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,404 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 24 Jan 2014 - 11:40 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
The really bad news about the shim over bucket system is,the side with the size stamped on it, always faces down so ya don't know what it is until ya remove it. A reputable dealer will usually have an assortment in stock to cover all the bases when they do the job,and many times will swap the size you have for the size you need.But that's a reputable dealer.Unfortunately,there are more unreputable dealers than there are reputable dealers. Dave!!! |
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Dave the shims that came out of mine and the ones from the dealer had the sizes in some type of ink, which wasn't legible, not stamped. FYI.
| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Jan 2014 - 13:31 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: Leethal) | | | You are quite correct Lee. They are NOT stamped, but MARKED, as you noted,with some type of ink.Please forgive my misuse of words as that's what I actually meant.However, on occasion,and as noted,I do get alittle ahead of myself when attempting to explain something. I told ya I wasn't very bright!! REMEMBER??? DUH!! Dummy Dave!!!
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| | | jusspassnthru | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 03/03/2011 | | Posts | : | 104 | | Location | : | IL, United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Jan 2014 - 16:13 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | | Dave. If you haven't touched the valves on your bird, how is it that you can confirm that the shims are marked and not stamped?
Just curious.
| Those who believe absurdities will commit atrocities: Voltaire
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| | | davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 24 Jan 2014 - 18:40 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: jusspassnth | | | Because I've done atleast 50 machines,all of which use the same shim/bucket system as the Triumph does! Plus,I have an assortment of 25MM shims,which is also the size that the Triumph uses.And all of em are marked on one side,the side which always faces DOWN so the numbers stamped on em don't get marred and can be read.Ca Pishe?? Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 24 Jan 2014 - 22:25 |
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| | | Leethal | | Zeus | | | | Reg. Date | : | 24/01/2011 | | Posts | : | 6,404 | | Location | : | Australia |
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| | Posted : 25 Jan 2014 - 03:53 Post title : Re: 12000 mile / 20000 Klms Service overhaul necessary or not. ???? (Re: davetac1) | | |
davetac1 wrote:
You are quite correct Lee. They are NOT stamped, but MARKED, as you noted,with some type of ink.Please forgive my misuse of words as that's what I actually meant.However, on occasion,and as noted,I do get alittle ahead of myself when attempting to explain something. I told ya I wasn't very bright!! REMEMBER??? DUH!! Dummy Dave!!! |
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| Experience is something you get just after you needed it
1600,Foran Razorbacks, Meerkat bypass, Dyno tune, real headlight,plenty of chrome,switchblade pegs, Hagon Nitro shocks & Ikon progressive fork springs etc. Scorpion Western Low handlebars. PH adjustable fork caps.
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