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| Theazrp | | Set |  | | Reg. Date | : | 14/10/2010 | | Posts | : | 111 | | Location | : | Gold Canyon, Arizona, United States |
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| | Posted : 04 Dec 2010 - 17:04 Post title : New behavior, why is it doing this? | | | Got the Bird in Oct and have about 2500 miles on without any glitches or problems of any kind. Now however it seems to have developed a new habit. It suddenly revs up to high rpm for a few seconds and then drops back to normal. It's happened 4 times now. The only common thing I've noticed is that it happens at operating temperature and when the engine us not under load. Three of the four times were after highway speed runs when slowed to idle at a stop sign, and the fourth was after it had been sitting at idle for a while after start up. Before taking it in to the shop, I'm just to see what some of the techno-mechanical T Bird wizards on this forum think it might be. Any idea?
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| mad_angler1 | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 511 | | Location | : | United Kingdom |
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| | Posted : 04 Dec 2010 - 18:49 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | | | My first guess would be a sticky/Faulty TPS, that's the only thing that should cause it, I would check your throttle cables for correct slack when no throttle, also check nothing is getting caught i'n the throttle boddie area as there is a lot crammed i'n a small space. 
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| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 04 Dec 2010 - 19:45 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: mad_angler1) | | | You might also wanna try the 12 minute adaption procedure which is the easiest thing to do.That should recalibrate everything to existing temp and climate conditions. Dave!!!
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| tadpole | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 307 | | Location | : | Mandurah, West Australia, Australia |
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| | Posted : 04 Dec 2010 - 22:31 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | |
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| tadpole | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/05/2009 | | Posts | : | 307 | | Location | : | Mandurah, West Australia, Australia |
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| | Posted : 04 Dec 2010 - 22:34 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: tadpole) | | | Hi Dave, Before you do anything, check all of your vacuum connections thoroughly as well, leaks can give you the symptoms you describe, then do an adaption , cheers, Tadpole.....
| | Post edited by tadpole on 04 Dec 2010 - 22:35 |
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| teebird | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 25/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 293 | | Location | : | United States |
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| | Posted : 04 Dec 2010 - 23:18 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: tadpole) | | | buddy I have for you bad news .
your new thunderbird has the toyota blues.
when you want to stop, or slow down a might.
the toyota bug puts up its fight.
even when there is no car to pass,
your toyota virus increases the gas.
there is only one fix, to set your bike free.
I will send you my address, and you can give it to me.
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| Theazrp | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 14/10/2010 | | Posts | : | 111 | | Location | : | Gold Canyon, Arizona, United States |
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| | Posted : 05 Dec 2010 - 16:20 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: tadpole) | | | Thanks a million guys. Bike hasn't been started this morning so I'm heading to the garage to check the vacuum connections and then run the 12 min. adaptation.
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| DizzE | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 05 Dec 2010 - 16:20 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | | |
Theazrp wrote:
Got the Bird in Oct and have about 2500 miles on without any glitches or problems of any kind. Now however it seems to have developed a new habit. It suddenly revs up to high rpm for a few seconds and then drops back to normal. It's happened 4 times now. The only common thing I've noticed is that it happens at operating temperature and when the engine us not under load. Three of the four times were after highway speed runs when slowed to idle at a stop sign, and the fourth was after it had been sitting at idle for a while after start up. Before taking it in to the shop, I'm just to see what some of the techno-mechanical T Bird wizards on this forum think it might be. Any idea? |
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If it's revving on it's on, I'd think, physically, something would need to pull on the cable. Mine did that on a full left lock because I had
mis-routed the throttle cable pair when I first put on the Deuce Risers. So after a check for obstruction. I'd begin to rule out sensors.
TPS can be reset in TuneECU. T-ecu can also read trouble codes, you might have. Bad sensors supposedly throw Codes.
Also, there is a Throttle Plate stepper motor. 12 Minute Adapation AFTER first run of cooling fan could
straighten that out.
Then there are other sensors that are reading pressure. MAP and Ambient, plus Air Temp. If it still surges after the above and the
rubber sense hoses are in place, it could be those.
Then even further along the wild path could be other sensors, road speed? But, for bad sensors, the ECU is supposed to ignore them
and not produce goofy Toyota-like symptoms.
The worst thing could be some kind of intermittent fault in the wiring harnesses. There you'd start with the conjecture there is water
and/or grime in the plugs connectors. Spray some good stuff in to rule that out.
Lastly, the service manual gives exhaustive pin by pin trouble shooting logic trees. Exhausting.
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| Theazrp | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 14/10/2010 | | Posts | : | 111 | | Location | : | Gold Canyon, Arizona, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Dec 2010 - 00:46 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | | | Got some good info in response to this, so thank you very much. This morning I went out and checked to see if I had any loose vacuum connections. Couldn't find anything loose, so I ran the 12 minute adaptation and I Have the feeling this may have sorted it out. I rode for awhile this afternoon and I could feel a big difference in the way the bike runs, so I'm thinking they probably overlooked this little item prior to delivery. Anyhow, all seems good for now (except while sitting on the floor waiting for the fan to come on during the 12 min. run, I discovered a little coolant leak! (sheesh!...such is life). Thanks again.
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| MickeyBoy | | Chaac | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 18/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 553 | | Location | : | WiNe CoUnTrY TeMeCuLa, Socialist State of Kalifornia, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Dec 2010 - 14:16 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | | | Since the adaption sets the bike for present conditions, does anyone feel the need to do it every time the seasons change? Where I am in SoCal the temperature can fluctuate as much as 50° - 60° from summer to winter.
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Dec 2010 - 14:58 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: MickeyBoy) | | | I've run it 4 times now. I ran it last when it turned cold. I'm thinking ever Qtr here in NorCal couldn't hurt.
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| Theazrp | | Set | | | Reg. Date | : | 14/10/2010 | | Posts | : | 111 | | Location | : | Gold Canyon, Arizona, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Dec 2010 - 15:10 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: DizzE) | | | That was gonna be my next question. Now I know that I'll probably need to run it periodically. We have big temp changes too. Winter it's about like the weather in southern CA, but our summer afternoons can be 112 degrees or more. (and yes I have ridden in those temps, but I don't make a habit of it.)
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| MickeyBoy | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 553 | | Location | : | WiNe CoUnTrY TeMeCuLa, Socialist State of Kalifornia, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Dec 2010 - 16:42 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | | | Theazrp wrote:
That was gonna be my next question. Now I know that I'll probably need to run it periodically. We have big temp changes too. Winter it's about like the weather in southern CA, but our summer afternoons can be 112 degrees or more. (and yes I have ridden in those temps, but I don't make a habit of it.) |
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I know the feeling. On the inland portion of SoCal our summer days can start at 60° in the morning and hit 110° by 3 pm. I will need to find a happy medium when I run it again.
| | Post edited by MickeyBoy on 06 Dec 2010 - 16:43 |
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 06 Dec 2010 - 17:30 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Theazrp) | | |
Theazrp wrote:
That was gonna be my next question. Now I know that I'll probably need to run it periodically. We have big temp changes too. Winter it's about like the weather in southern CA, but our summer afternoons can be 112 degrees or more. (and yes I have ridden in those temps, but I don't make a habit of it.) |
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Reading up again on the reasons, there are more than seasonal concerns. Electrical reasons involving Relay and Sensors replacement.
Enough to make me realize that even deterioration of sensors and our old hardware nemesis ES Discharges are contributing to what
amounts to fuzzy starting logic de-rez. All changes of Impedance in the harnesses are suspect, to me, as well. Humidity? youbetcha.
Good reason to look and listen while I wait for the fan event. I think I'm just running sensor alignment and resetting a dozen Idle values.
Always seems to make me feel better. 
Ah, new tune, I forgot....needs Adaption...change in Thermodynamics.
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| MickeyBoy | | Chaac | | | | Reg. Date | : | 18/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 553 | | Location | : | WiNe CoUnTrY TeMeCuLa, Socialist State of Kalifornia, United States |
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| | Posted : 08 Dec 2010 - 16:43 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: DizzE) | | | I ran it yesterday around noon when the temperature was 75°. I woke up to 37° weather and it hit a high of 81° yesterday. One thing I did notice is when I did it at a colder temp, approximately 45°, it took longer for the fan to kick in and when I was done I noticed my fuel consumption had gone up. I'll monitor it now to see if there are any major changes.
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| Gary | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 21/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 339 | | Location | : | Herford/used to be london, Germany |
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| | Posted : 08 Dec 2010 - 19:12 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: DizzE) | | | Hi Dizz
What is the12 minute adaption procedure?
| Big Bohr 1700 Thunderbird and now Storm owner
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| Birdy68 | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
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| | Posted : 08 Dec 2010 - 20:05 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Gary) | | | Hi Gary, to do the 12" thingy you:
1) Start your bike without giving any throttle (preferably)
2) Leave the engine running until the cooling fan starts.
3) Wait till the fan stops then....
4) Wait another 12 minutes - WITHOUT TOUCHING ANYTHING.
After that you can stop the engine - Finito....
After this the ECU has reset - re-calibrated - itself.
It's something a dealer should perform when preparing the bike after delivery from Triumph.
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
 -x-  -x- 
more info at Fuelly.com
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| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 17:31 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Birdy68) | | | I just redid the 12 minute adaption routine this morning.The first time I did it was before she was even broken in at less than 1000 miles,and it did make a difference in the way she ran and started, especially when restarting it right after I shut it off,like after a gas stop.Now that I'm approaching the 12,000 mile mark,and especially because it's winter around here with a high of 25*F today,I figured it wouldn't hurt to do it again.Right after I redid it,I took her out for alittle run,and like before she ran ok.The test will be after I leave it out in the cold for 8 or 10 hours to see if she'll start better.It should,but I won't know until I try it.I'll let you guys know if it made any difference. Dave!!!
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| Gary | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 21/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 339 | | Location | : | Herford/used to be london, Germany |
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| | Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 19:33 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Birdy68) | | | Thanks Birdy But what is the advantage of doing this? Won't it wipe all the data that the bike has learnt about how I ride, please be patient I am still a novice with bikes.
| Big Bohr 1700 Thunderbird and now Storm owner
| | Post edited by Gary on 09 Dec 2010 - 19:49 |
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| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
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| | Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 22:41 Post title : Re: New behavior, why is it doing this? (Re: Gary) | | | Adaption Status: SM 10.27
"Because the fuel system is adaptive, the engine management system is able to automatically adjust to new working conditions,
such as, changes in altitude, component wear, air leaks, etc."
There are 10 parameters.
1 - closed throttle adapted------------YES/NO
2 - Idle speed control adaption---------- % of adaption
The next 8 values are % "information on the adaption status..."
On 10.116 is a section on Adaption.
"This means that the system is able to learn about new and changing operating conditions and continuously adapt itself without
needing to constantly make major adjustments from a fixed baseline setting."
It goes on to talk about changes in rider behavior, regions of operation, altitude, different parts with new characteristics, etc.
"All adaptive changes are automatic and require no intervention."
We find that status is how far it is currently from the baseline and range is how much of it's adjustment is used.
"It" being the Ox sensors. (I have to think this is mostly about calibrating the Ox sensors to the ECU)
Then there is the way to "force adaption" ....the 12 minute thing and why you do.
Why? "...the read out indicates that the motorcycle has not adapted." Status not = zero +/-10%
Damm---won't start!
----------------------BINGO
The reason you don't want to run the adaption too frequently is when range = 100% that can be a fault indicator the pressure systems at the air induction. Leaky airbox is cited. Or even failing injectors. SM 10.117
IAC, I have my Ox sensors OFF at this time.
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