Forum Posts (Technical Talk-Performance Mods.-Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake)

Main

Who's on-line

Members

Latest posts

AUP

Calendar

Album

Skin:

User:

Username Password Login

Remember me

Cancel Remember me

Forgot your password?

Change your password

Technical Talk -> Performance Mods.	Finally did the Decat - My latest upgrade - rim pow...
Previous page - [1],[2],[3],[4],[5],[All] - Next page
Categories :

Topic : Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 02 Dec 2010 - 13:49 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: teebird)

teebird wrote:

We just may find like I did that hanging on to a 1700 with the other mods is hard enough.. you will want a sissy bar to catch you from sliding off if you do any more!!

I'm only 145lbs, so the shorties alone seemed to add a nice UMPH off the line... I LOVE the current combo of hair-parting torque AND great fuel economy (I've been getting 55-59 MPG on rides longer than 3 hours). If I can squeeze out an additional 5BHP with this intake without sucking in too much more fuel, then I'll be very pleased, in deed.

My wife is only 105lbs on a good day and hardly ever wants to ride with me, so I really don't have a burning desire for the 1700 kit just yet... of course, there's that part of me that does crave that overkill

2012 Storm (SOLD!)
Other Bikes:
2003 Suzuki DRZ400E (plated - my dual sport/mountain trail/camping bike)
Past Bikes:
2012 K13S
2009 KTM 990 Adventure
2010 Triumph Thunderbird 1600 (the Alien Queen)
2009 Triumph Sprint ST (another great bike!)
2007 Kawasaki ZX10R
2000 Kawasaki ZRX1100
1975 Honda SB550T "Clubman"
1981 Kawasaki KZ1000J
1985 Suzuki GS550E
1978 Yamaha 650 Special

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 05 Dec 2010 - 19:34 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: narsisco_lopez)

FYI: Kevin sent out the intake to me on Friday and I should see it sometime this coming week. Kevin and I have both spoken with Erico Motorsports here in Denver... they are a Triumph dealership and also have a dyno. We're gonna try to get the first dyno test done on either Friday, Dec. 10th or Saturday, Dec. 11th. I'll bolt on the intake and try to get the bike back in for the second dyno test the following week. I'll then post the results to this thread as soon as I have them.

Author

Post

teebird

Set

Reg. Date	:	25/07/2009
Posts	:	293
Location	:	United States

Posted : 05 Dec 2010 - 21:38 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: narsisco_lopez)

Dave:

I wonder if ERICO can tell you when they do their dyno... this "modification" looks to take 5 minutes max: pull the seat cover, remove four screws, replace the filter cover, replace four screws, and either test with and without the seat baffle in place or just teh with and without OEM filter cover.

As a jesture of curiosity and good will, I will pay for that part of the ERICO dyno run with and without the seat baffle in place, as another comparison to the thunderbike air guide vs OEM air guide.

THis is because it is going to be tested at OUR ELEVATION: mile high!!

Teebird, aka Jameister silverbird...

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 00:54 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: teebird)

@teebird.

Jamie, since it's really Kev's test (and he's paying for both dyno runs and shipping for the intake, and giving me the intake), it's his call on this. I imagine he's not gonna want to muddy the waters with too many variables like this. We'd planned on the straight stock vs. new intake test.

I should be seeing the intake in the mail any day now, though. I also talked with Erico and they're ready to test... hoping to get the 'Bird in for the first run as early as next Tuesday, Dec. 14th.

Author

Post

DizzE

Thor

Reg. Date	:	12/07/2010
Posts	:	3,141
Location	:	Sunnyvale, CA, United States

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 14:37 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: narsisco_lopez)

Wouldn't you be interested in a compare of new part vs no part? I'd see that as the baseline. You could tell us
latter as a completely separate and apart test....on a separate and apart receipt...since you are there and testing?

Author

Post

Thatch

Thor

Reg. Date	:	24/06/2009
Posts	:	3,655
Location	:	Savannah, GA, United States

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 14:52 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: DizzE)

Yeah but that's not the point of this whole discussion nor Thunderbike's responsibility to prove or disprove. If someone else wants to do a before and after dyno of the seat mod and compare the gains between that and the Thunderbike kit then I think that would be a fine thing to do, but not something that TB should be concerned with or interested in supporting. I suspect that the gains will be similar but you have to tear up your set to get there. So, I suspect that those interested in the Thunderbike offering are those either not interested in tearing up their seat OR not interested in a DIY project.

Now I will admit it might be interesting to see what the seat mod WITH the TB Hi-Flow intake would do on the dyno. I'd be surprised if they were cumulative but they might be at least to some degree.

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 14:58 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Thatch)

Good, ol Thatch... always the voice of reason on this forum. Ever think of a career in diplomacy?

Author

Post

Birdy68

Thor

Reg. Date	:	16/07/2009
Posts	:	3,352
Location	:	Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 16:08 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: narsisco_lopez)

nooooo.... He's too honest

Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!

-x-

more info at Fuelly.com

Author

Post

daz

Zeus

Reg. Date	:	12/05/2009
Posts	:	7,684
Location	:	United States

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 18:39 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Thatch)

I'm really suspicious of this not just because of tbikes claim of 15 HP w/o rejetting on the carb'd 900's, but also because after removing then replacing the seat ducts several times i came to believe i actually felt a slight reduction in power. I think any time you add better air induction, unless the bike is in need of that (IE rich) it's either going to do nothing or degrade performance. I also find it odd that if this works, why wouldn't triumph have done it? after all they would only improve emissions by leaning it out, and they no doubt have far far better resources than Tbikes for designing air intakes. So why would they sacrifice 5 extra HP? Unless maybe it puts the bike in a dangerously lean state, which by the way may be the case since we know they are typically as lean as safely possible stock for emissions reasons. So none of it makes any sense to me, nor has my experience with opening airways. But, we'll see. If it works i won't be shocked but i will be surprised. Still might worry about excessive lean condition tho unless the dyno shows it's fine in that regard.

2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link

Author

Post

DizzE

Thor

Reg. Date	:	12/07/2010
Posts	:	3,141
Location	:	Sunnyvale, CA, United States

Posted : 09 Dec 2010 - 19:15 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Thatch)

Thatch wrote:

I suspect that those interested in the Thunderbike offering are those either not interested in tearing up their seat OR not interested in a DIY project.

To compare no widget vs OEM widget vs TB widget tears up nothing and can't be DIY since you have to take off the widget, IAC.

Author

Post

kev062

Set

Reg. Date	:	04/08/2010
Posts	:	13
Location	:	New Zealand

Posted : 15 Dec 2010 - 03:32 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake

Quick update on where we are on the dyno test.

NZ Post and customs took a dislike to the package leaving NZ for some reason and it has been stuck in Auckland but it's on a plane now. I can only assume they didn't want to share it with the world....

Fingers crossed it gets to Denver before 2 foot of snow.

I don't mind what other independant tests anyone wants to perform but in the interests of keeping it simple and doing what we set out to do, we'll be sticking to the original agreement.

The test sample will be the property of David once the test is done so anyone who is keen to take it further will have to speak to him kindly or buy their own test sample. I'll be happy to post more test results if I get the opportunity here to run them.

www.thunderbike.co.nz

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 17 Dec 2010 - 18:41 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: kev062)

Another quick update: the package arrived safely at my house in Denver today, Friday December 17th, 2010 and I just scheduled BOTH dyno runs (tentatively, depending upon snow!) for Tuesday, December 21st (ah, first day of Winter!) at 10am.

At Kevin's suggestion, we'll do the first dyno run stock configuration (keep in mind, guys, that I DO have TOR shorties and the updated map... was done at the dealer during its first service). I'll then pull the seat myself, remove the stock intake, install the Thunderbike intake, put the seat back on, then we'll do the second run.

I will post the results myself here along with all the contact info for Phil Lombana, the Erico service advisor we are dealing with. Phil will be available to verify all results.

More to come next week...

Post edited by narsisco_lopez on 17 Dec 2010 - 18:42

Author

Post

zolti

Thor

Reg. Date	:	23/03/2010
Posts	:	3,127
Location	:	newcastle , United Kingdom

Posted : 18 Dec 2010 - 22:50 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: narsisco_lopez)

check thunderrat 11 june - post - Tuneboy is alive and well....

"Wayne put it on his dyno and started to work his magic. First thing was to see the comparison with seat on and then off. About 3-4 hp difference. So, the under part of the seat was cut away where it fits over the airbox. Basically the whole circular part was cut out.Numerous runs and a lot of mapping ended up with changes to the ignition, the air fuel mix being altered especially in the low rev range where it was found to be running very lean."

we know there is a gain!!

lean running not good
map alteration req
cost of part against a couple of straps across the fixings,
no brainer

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 21 Dec 2010 - 22:48 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: zolti)

Ok fellas, here's the results from today's test (Tuesday, Dec. 21st, 2010)...

It was a bit nippy as I rode into Erico Motorsports ( Link ) this morning... my Formotion thermometer was reading right around 33 degrees Fahrenheit. Phil Lombana, the Erico Service Advisor got things rolling quickly and the first, stock test was done in about 20 minutes. They let me back into the dyno room so I could swap out the stock intake with the new Thunderbikes Hi Flow Intake. I rolled in around 10:15am and was on my way around noon.

Here are the scans of the actual print outs Phil handed to me before I left. (Phil can confirm all results... call him at 303-308-1811) You are all free to compare/contrast/argue as you will.

Let the food fight commence!

Post edited by narsisco_lopez on 21 Dec 2010 - 23:22

Author

Post

Disquieter

Set

Reg. Date	:	18/10/2010
Posts	:	36
Location	:	Dayton, OH, United States

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 00:58 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake

If you don't mind me asking, what are your thoughts overall about the product (quality of make, etc)?

Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind. -Dr. Seuss

Author

Post

daz

Zeus

Reg. Date	:	12/05/2009
Posts	:	7,684
Location	:	United States

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 02:26 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake

So about 3.75 HP. Less than they said, but also you have to realize the rubber seal around the stock unit is no longer there. So how do we know how much of the increase is due to that not being there? So it's possible that is the main or even only reason for the increase. I'm really not trying to bash those guys regardless of whether or not the deserve it. I'm trying to be 100% objective and look at it realistically so no one is looking at this from a flawed perspective. fact is, that rubber seal comes right off, and when my bike was brand new it was already 1/2 off so i just pulled it all the way off. Then when it was reported the seat duct mod gave 6 HP i tried it and was sad to find no difference that i could be sure of, and i'm positive i'd easily feel 6 HP. Point here is, maybe the reason i didn't notice it was that the seal was off of mine right from the beginning and i was already getting the benefit. Also not the mouth is wider which is also something the stock filter could be easily modded for.

What i think would tell the truth about the Thunderbike mouth is to compare dynos with that and with a stock mouth with the seal off. I'd be willing to bet that even if you didn't see the 3.75 HP increase you would see a good part of it, and very possibly all. And if not widening the mouth probably would. If i'm right about that then we'd be paying $250 for about 10 minutes with a razor or knife or dremel/whatever. It should be noted that there is zero proof here or reason to believe that this part will benefit any more than that. I just see it as another attempt to find a easy way into people's wallets. the thinking behind it is common. I may be wrong, but at 3.75 HP with is minimal i've see that kind of gain a lot with the 900 twins and the mods that have been done, most of which i tried. Anyways, i would suggest to anyone considering parting with $250 to try modding the stock part and if it doesn't work well your out $38. Or do the duct mod, or both. Theres a lot to play with and i seriously doubt you'd fail to get at least that 3.75 HP this part did.

2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 02:49 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Disquieter)

Disquieter wrote:

If you don't mind me asking, what are your thoughts overall about the product (quality of make, etc)?

Well, I'm not certain (and Kev can address this in more detail), but I believe what Thunderbikes sent me is still considered a production prototype. With that said, the fit was a perfect match with the stock (meaning it fit in the same spot with no discernible slop/misalignment and mounting holes aligned perfectly). As you can see from the close-up photo, it even included the "thunderbikes.co.nz" url/brand. The material appears to be a hard, delrin/acetal (again, Kev can address the material used) and it appears to be machined. If you read Kev's second post of this thread (responding to the first few people) he mentions that because of projected sales volumes, the final product would likely be aluminum or acetal (once again, Kev can speak to this) and machined as opposed to injection-molded.

Obviously, if you look at the photos, installation is simply removing stock and replacing with the new one... I did it in less than 3 minutes (including removing the seat)... and that's while the bike was on the dyno with Phil, the Erico service advisor, chatting me up while I worked.

I created another post in this section called, "Thunderbikes Hi Flow Air Intake ~ An Aside", where I gave a link to the British Customs site that's selling a very similar intake for the Speedmaster... really just to illustrate that other engineers have taken a similar approach and created a product at a very similar price point.

Anyway... the Erico numbers are the numbers: you can take 'em, leave 'em, or ignore 'em. I can't speak personally to cutting out my seat air intakes, modding my air box, or messing with TuneBoy to compensate for the overly-lean conditions that will ultimately be the result of seat-hacking. At this point in the ownership cycle of my Thunderbird, I'm not interested in those types of mods, as I am very happy with the performance level of the bike with just adding my shorty TORs.

The charts DO show minor leanness early in the curve, but I can tell you (at least from the experience of my 15 mile ride home with the new intake in place) that I DID NOT notice any negative effects to indicate it was running lean... I'm no expert, but the Triumph techs tell me that that very minor lean condition can be easily compensated for by the ECU. As far as being able to notice the 4 hp increase? I'll be honest and say that I'm not capable of feeling it with normal my riding style. I'm a bit of a throttle junkie: LOVE short shifts into the 4 1/2 grand range to feel the bike's torque... but I couldn't feel those extra foot pounds.

I'm planning on leaving the new intake in place and will report back as I put more miles on it.

Author

Post

narsisco_lopez

Thor

Reg. Date	:	09/09/2010
Posts	:	2,765
Location	:	Golden (Showers!), Colorado, United States

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 03:17 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: daz)

daz wrote:

What i think would tell the truth about the Thunderbike mouth is to compare dynos with that and with a stock mouth with the seal off. I'd be willing to bet that even if you didn't see the 3.75 HP increase you would see a good part of it, and very possibly all.

Hey Daz,

When I got home I took a very close look at the stock intake (it's actually in front of me right now) and I noticed immediately that the rubber seal pulls right off. And, I thought the same thing you just wrote. If I had more interest (which, quite honestly, I don't), I'd schedule another run (it was only $74 bucks, after all) to test. Obviously, anyone who's that interested can do this test easily.

With all due respect, I don't think it's quite fair to label Kevin and his team as guys simply looking to "find a easy way into people's wallets." In my opinion, they are legitimately trying to bring a legitimate aftermarket performance part to market. As an ex-manufacturing engineer, I can see it from their side and have been in the position of doing the research and hard work to determine whether or not it's worth the effort to bring a product to market.

From the passion exhibited in this thread (and all the other threads on the subject of custom ECU tunes and seat/airbox mods), it's very obvious that the initial Triumph design for the Thunderbird breathing system has left a big gap that many of you enterprising, experimenting guys are trying to fill

But to me, it looks as though Triumph's engineers should be looking at ways to improve on it for future models.

Post edited by narsisco_lopez on 22 Dec 2010 - 03:20

Author

Post

kev062

Set

Reg. Date	:	04/08/2010
Posts	:	13
Location	:	New Zealand

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 03:42 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: narsisco_lopez)

So, the results are in.... Thanks to Dave for offering his time to get this done in the middle of winter.

Today our product didn't meet our expectations through the mid range but did pretty much what we said at peak.

On that result we are happy to change our marketing accordingly so that we don't over state the potential gains to be had.

I still stand by the dyno results that I posted originally. They are genuine, untampered traces. At this point I don't have an answer to the reasons why Daves bike didn't show the same bulge through the midrange. The bike I used was fitted with long TORs and the appropriate Triumph map and sunny Nelson is situated at sea level. I wouldn't imagine the short TORs would give drastically different results from the longs but at this point the result is what it is.

What has been proven is that you will gain 4hp with no more than 5 minutes work and no need to re-tune. For those that don't have the inclination/time/resources to modify their existing intake it stands as an alternative bolt on mod.

In bang for your buck terms it still stacks up well. NZ$56/hp, AU$41/bhp, US$42.50/bhp, GBP28/bhp, EU33/bhp delivered to your door at todays exchange rates.

Yes, pulling the rubber seal gives a gain on its own. Yes, opening out the intake area gives a gain. Yes, removing the seat completely and removing the lid completely give a gain but I wouldn't recommend it for obvious reasons. None of that is in question here and we have cut lids for customers ourselves. That was the catalyst for producing a product that doesn't require chopping the standard parts.

So to those with whome the product fits with their needs we'll be ready to ship mid January, to those it doesn't fit with thanks for looking.

We intend to continue developing products, maybe another one will fit your needs in the future.

www.thunderbike.co.nz

Author

Post

daz

Zeus

Reg. Date	:	12/05/2009
Posts	:	7,684
Location	:	United States

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 04:46 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: kev062)

Well heres the thing Kevin, and i hope you don't take my input the wrong way, tho i imagine you aren't particularly fond of me at this point.

but i do speak my mind and i do think i have some common sense that lets me see thru to the facts. And if we're going to be real here i've got to say that when you mentioned it's a good alternative to chopping up stock parts, that just doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me when looking at the facts. granted, this is ASSUMING that modding the stock parts does indeed match or better your results. But i look at it like this....how is spending 2 hundred and fifty bucks a good alternative to 5-10 minutes of work on the stock $38 top? I mean, if it works you just saved $250. If it doesn't you're only out $38. But i would be almost shocked if you couldn't match the results with self modding. A ton of us did with the speedmaster/america's box with good results. Sorry to be a thorn in your side, but i'm just telling it like it really is without bias. i'm looking at both sides because if you really had a part there that would add a solid 5 HP and it couldn't be done w/o buying that part, i'd be saying thanks instead of debating it's worth. But i'm not in this for the money like you, i'm in it to shed any light i can for my fellow Tbird owners, and thats my only motivation. If there was a much bigger question here i'd be more likely to just sit back and watch what transpires w/o much or any input. Sorry to be a thorn in your side, but i think what i said needed to be said.

2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link

Author

Post

AlainD

Set

Reg. Date	:	16/12/2010
Posts	:	164
Location	:	Nice, France

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 09:36 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: kev062)

newbie questions around the design :

What is the rational behind having a cross section of the inlet beeing ovoid?
My little experience in that area tells me that the venturi effect that one could see in the model shown is rather limited
Isn't the efficiency gain that can be measured only due to cross section increased while keeping smooth edges?

It was mentioned that some FEA analysis was used to simulate the efficiency of this design, I am definitively interrested in understanding how the boundary conditions of such an analysis could be defined.

Another point: as we are dealing with "moving" air, the dyno test is running with a non moving bike, thus the air that is entering the whole channel : below seat + Air intake etc.... is "static"
Isn't that making a difference when the bike is in real life ?

Author

Post

DizzE

Thor

Reg. Date	:	12/07/2010
Posts	:	3,141
Location	:	Sunnyvale, CA, United States

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 16:32 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: AlainD)

Thanks, narsi, for this excellent test. It really does further my hypothesis.

The doo-hicky does, adversely move, without increasing, the torque peak as my DynoSim predicts.

I prefer to work the torque peak downward, but to each his own.

I still maintain you will see this result with no thing installed.

Alain, I think ovoid was chosen because it is restrictive but more importantly, for the velocity increase.
Air velocity is king under 3000 rpm for big twins, not flow mass, ie CFM. If I was running
a 4 cyl at 8000, then v-stack shaped items tuned for big CFM is the ticket.

Oh, and since the air intake faces backwards on this bike, under the seat there is no ram effect.
If fact, it's designed to pull cool static air from your wind shadow.

And I have to say, that split intake is mathematically correct for the tuned plenum. I think it
was daz that pointed out it's also got an acoustic horn shape like that which Boss and Klipsch made famous.

I am convinced that these are wave guide shapes and I feel better not disturbing
them. That includes the intake part, for me, as well.

Author

Post

Druid

Jupiter

Reg. Date	:	14/10/2009
Posts	:	1,359
Location	:	United Kingdom

Posted : 22 Dec 2010 - 16:56 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: DizzE)

I applaud any company who develop stuff for our bike . I also applaud people like Daz for asking questions and offering a reasoned debate on stuff I wouldnt know shit about.

One thing , am I getting this right , in the queens finest sterling am I looking at about 115 quid? Sure thats cheaper than the BB kit but then again the BB kit isnt just about £ per torque and HP. That said thanks very much for developing this for the Bird but Im not sure Id spend that kind of money for 4 ish bhp . Im not that sure Id notice 4 bhp anyway.

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery - W.Churchill

Author

Post

zolti

Thor

Reg. Date	:	23/03/2010
Posts	:	3,127
Location	:	newcastle , United Kingdom

Posted : 23 Dec 2010 - 07:59 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Druid)

for me its a definite no

triumph spend thousands on r&d and their specifications for these design decisions some high lighted by dizz n daz are based on sound engineering principles. what i would like to see is triumph offering performance "off road" accessories just incase we wanted to take our bikes to track days

and not just the simple garnishes they offer at present.
yes i have a cruiser but it handles and i do like power

as to why i say no to this particular mod i couldnt have put it better than daz n drui.

Author

Post

kev062

Set

Reg. Date	:	04/08/2010
Posts	:	13
Location	:	New Zealand

Posted : 24 Dec 2010 - 01:16 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake

Last night I finally got the time to sit down and take a proper at the results of Erico's dyno runs. Here's my take on it.

The print out shows a peak horsepower gain of 3.75bhp. Fair enough. The story that isn't told there is that at 3800rpm the gain is 4.5bhp, at 4000rpm it is 4.9bhp and at 4200rpm it is 4.3bhp. Erico didn't give me specific read outs off their software so I had to scale those figures off of the print out.

The torque increase at 3800rpm is 6lb/ft

Our claim: 5bhp at 3700rpm, 4bhp at 4500rpm - You'd be mean not to grant us that one.

The blips in the curve up to 2500rpm I'm inclined to put down to operating conditions on that run. I see it a lot on carb model bikes and rolling the throttle on smoother usually cleans the curve up. Admittedly on this curve it is over a fairly wide range and I would expect the fuel injection to react a bit quicker. The only way to tell for sure would have been to do a couple more runs and compare again. When I'm on the dyno I always do 3 runs at each change of set up then compare those 3 results, if I don't have 2 out of the 3 matching I do another couple of runs until I get a consistent result. I'm not knocking Erico here, they did exactly what we asked.

In the testing I conducted the torque is below standard by a gnats cock until about 2250rpm. So I'm happy the intake isn't shifting the curve, it is allowing the engine to keep producing that torque level over a wider rev range, hence the power gains.

The parabolic lip was chosen for it's drag coefficient. Edge shape effects are pretty well documented and are covered by basic engineering text books. Because I wanted to keep a raised lip to help avoid water ingress it made sense to use a good profile for the air flow as well. I wouldn't class the air flow as static in that environment. It is certainly dynamic and i would class it as oscillatory. Unless the engine isn't running... Coefficient of drag figures are more sensitive to geometry in oscillatory flow as well. I didn't mention FEA and no I haven't used any FEA on this product.

Not sure where the $250 figure has come from, the full retail price including freight to your door anywhere in USA is US$170 not including any discounts that we are offering. GBP111.30 delivered.

The DIY/Bought debate is starting to go round in circles so I'm calling time on that one!

In the spirit of the forums main agenda I'll try to compile some dyno runs that show what I've found when investigating where the restrictions lie in the intake. Basically I've found incremental gains by first removing the rubber lip, opening the intake, removing the seat, and removing the lid and filter. The gains are bigger with no lid than with the Thunderbike intake but if you're prepared to ride your bike without the airbox lid you might as well speed up the end result by throwing a bag of sand in there!

I'm off to enjoy a relaxing Christmas on the beach (I know summer Christmas is strange) and I wish everyone on the forum a safe and enjoyable Christmas and happy New Year.

www.thunderbike.co.nz

Author

Post

Druid

Jupiter

Reg. Date	:	14/10/2009
Posts	:	1,359
Location	:	United Kingdom

Posted : 24 Dec 2010 - 18:17 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: kev062)

Kev honestly appreciate the work .

Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery - W.Churchill

Author

Post

HooRad

Set

Reg. Date	:	19/01/2010
Posts	:	280
Location	:	Richmond, VA, United States

Posted : 24 Dec 2010 - 18:44 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Druid)

Thanks Kev! I appreciate your measured reply. Honestly, I think this is a pretty good performance increase for the money and I may go that way. Yeah, it's not a 15 hp increase, but it still is significant. And when factoring in loss of power at the wheel, the gains are probably about 15% more than stated at the crankshaft, which would take a stock bird from 85 hp to 89-90 hp and torque from 108 to about 114 ft.lb. Good job. If we could only get that other 10 hp!

By the way Kev, if you want another guinea pig, I'm planning on taking my bike in for a Power Commander tune soon (as soon as it's available!!!) and airbox upgrade. I'd be happy to post the results. Maybe we'll get closer to what your initial claims are.

Not likely to die of natural causes. At least I hope not.

Author

Post

Marlboro_Man

Set

Reg. Date	:	23/06/2012
Posts	:	72
Location	:	Belgium

Posted : 17 Jul 2012 - 20:25 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: HooRad)

Is this thing available anywhere in Europe?
I'd order one right away with express shipping.
Long story but I need it yesterday.

2011 Blue/White T-Bird with Big Bore, shorties, K&N filter, Power Commander 5, Twin-T Bars, America headlight and a Rider's Claw.

Also a BMW K1200RS B/W ... love B/W.

Author

Post

mat1600

Thunderbird

Reg. Date	:	06/03/2010
Posts	:	8,596
Location	:	Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom

Posted : 17 Jul 2012 - 20:34 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: Marlboro_Man)

save yourself some money and just remove the filter/seat seal around the top of the intake.

My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.

Author

Post

daz

Zeus

Reg. Date	:	12/05/2009
Posts	:	7,684
Location	:	United States

Posted : 17 Jul 2012 - 20:54 Post title : Re: Thunderbike Hi Flow Air Intake (Re: mat1600)

mat1600 wrote:

save yourself some money and just remove the filter/seat seal around the top of the intake.

Yep....thats all it does. removing the seal does just as much. The bellmouuth is no better than the stock filter mouth with seal removed. It's a expensive gimmick from thunderbike NZ. Those guys will jump on anything to make a buck. The used to advertise thier speedmaster/america pipes as adding 15 HP ! I had them....they added nothing i could feel, and a 15HP increase on a 50 HP bike would have been monumental. More goodies from Thunderscam.

2010 Blue/White Thunderbird, "Brutus". 1700 kit, short tors, gutted cat, UNI filter, filter seal off, custom tune. Brutus in his native habitat: Link

Previous page - [1],[2],[3],[4],[5],[All] - Next page