|
| BaltoThunder | | Set |  |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 43 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 17 Oct 2010 - 22:50 Post title : Backfire Debacle.... | | | I had traveled to Nags Head NC with a buddy for our annual visit to the outer banks. We had a nice ride planned out for saturday that I was looking forward too.
I get on the bike and get everything ready and hit the starter button. Just as it chugs to life, I let go of the button and it backfires into the airbox and quits. I hit the button again and it starts, but uh oh....check engine light stays lit. Well, lets see if it just needs to run a bit to reset.
Nope. Air pressure sensor in the box is toast (I believe anyway, will be taking it to the dealer tomorrow to see for sure.) I am now riding a bike that I have to manually idle with the throtle or it will die. It seems to run fine out on the highway, but low speeds and stops are now a supreme hassle. It's making lots of neat pops and chugs while at idle, and popping like crazy on decel. We decide to not do the long trip planned, but visit the Wright memorial, and try to find a shop that might be able to help. No luck there either. The closest place that's open that services Triumph is 130 miles in the wrong direction. I decide to park it and will ride the 300 miles back to Baltimore and hope it makes it.
To it's credit, it did. I strongly recommend that anybody that's having starting or backfire issuses to get the bike to a tech immediately and have them resolved. Mine had only done this once before, but I thought it was just a fluke thing. I will look at having the TORS tune installed since a lot of folks have said it cures a lot of the starting issues.
| Ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth!
2nd Officer Harbor Chapter #215 Southern Cruisers Riding Club
|
|
|
|
| DizzE | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 17 Oct 2010 - 23:31 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: BaltoThunder) | | |
BaltoThunder wrote:
I had traveled to Nags Head NC with a buddy for our annual visit to the outer banks. We had a nice ride planned out for saturday that I was looking forward too.
I get on the bike and get everything ready and hit the starter button. Just as it chugs to life, I let go of the button and it backfires into the airbox and quits. I hit the button again and it starts, but uh oh....check engine light stays lit. Well, lets see if it just needs to run a bit to reset.
Nope. Air pressure sensor in the box is toast (I believe anyway, will be taking it to the dealer tomorrow to see for sure.) I am now riding a bike that I have to manually idle with the throtle or it will die. It seems to run fine out on the highway, but low speeds and stops are now a supreme hassle. It's making lots of neat pops and chugs while at idle, and popping like crazy on decel. We decide to not do the long trip planned, but visit the Wright memorial, and try to find a shop that might be able to help. No luck there either. The closest place that's open that services Triumph is 130 miles in the wrong direction. I decide to park it and will ride the 300 miles back to Baltimore and hope it makes it.
To it's credit, it did. I strongly recommend that anybody that's having starting or backfire issuses to get the bike to a tech immediately and have them resolved. Mine had only done this once before, but I thought it was just a fluke thing. I will look at having the TORS tune installed since a lot of folks have said it cures a lot of the starting issues.
|
|
We are suppose to have a limp home mode....when an essential sensor quits, stuff like that. Glad to have you over here Balto.
The old bird can bring you back. Good story. Be glad to hear the fix if you get a straight answer. Sound like you need more than
a re-flash. I hope the maps don't just go belly up.
|
|
|
|
| HooRad | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 19/01/2010 | | Posts | : | 280 | | Location | : | Richmond, VA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 00:11 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: DizzE) | | | Before you take it into the dealer, try looking at the MAP sensor hose which attaches to the front of the cylinders, under the front of the tank. When this is unattached, I got the exact same thing you are describing - stall at idle, backfires, check engine. This is a know issue with the bike. Why it will fall off so easily is beyond me. Here's a link to the MAP sensor issue and where the hoses are:
Link
Hope this helps!
| Not likely to die of natural causes. At least I hope not.
|
|
|
|
| venator1226 | | Set | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 22/11/2009 | | Posts | : | 108 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 00:15 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: HooRad) | | |
HooRad wrote:
Before you take it into the dealer, try looking at the MAP sensor hose which attaches to the front of the cylinders, under the front of the tank. When this is unattached, I got the exact same thing you are describing - stall at idle, backfires, check engine. This is a know issue with the bike. Why it will fall off so easily is beyond me. Here's a link to the MAP sensor issue and where the hoses are:
Link
Hope this helps! |
|
you can just about bet money on this being the case....it's a very common thing with the Tbirds. I know my dealer used zip ties to make sure it never happens again.
|
|
|
|
| BaltoThunder | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 43 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 00:50 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: HooRad) | | | %$# Damn if you weren't right! Will the check engine light go off on its own or do I still need to see a dealer?
| Ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth!
2nd Officer Harbor Chapter #215 Southern Cruisers Riding Club
|
|
|
|
| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 01:53 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: BaltoThunder) | | | It's said that if you start it and stop it with out any rushing, 3 times, that will clear the light
but not the diag code.
Worth a shot. They say also to run the 12 min adaption routine and you should be good to go.
It's the first thing the dealer would do anyway if he knows.
|
|
|
|
| BaltoThunder | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 43 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 02:03 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: DizzE) | | | What do you mean by 'rushing'? And do I have to unhook the battery for any amount of time before doing the 12 minute adaptation?
| Ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth!
2nd Officer Harbor Chapter #215 Southern Cruisers Riding Club
|
|
|
|
| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 03:43 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: BaltoThunder) | | | To do the 12 minute adaption routine,the bike has to be cold,like set over night cold.Then,without touching the throttle at any time during this procedure,start the machine and just let it run until the fan comes on.Then with it still running,watch the clock until 12 minutes pass.Then it should have adapted itself so everything will work like it's supposed to.The dealer never did that to mine when it was brand new,hence it didn't run right.Then I heard about this procedure,performed it,and now the bike runs and starts like it's supposed to.
Now regarding this hose that falls off thing:Did any of you guys that had this problem have your machine serviced by a dealer previous to this happening??? Dave!!!
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 12:43 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: BaltoThunder) | | | BaltoThunder wrote:
What do you mean by 'rushing'? And do I have to unhook the battery for any amount of time before doing the 12 minute adaptation? |
|
You have to run through a set amount of 'Warm-up Cycles'.
The amount of warmup cycles depends on the fault at hand.
To quote the service manual regarding the Warm-Up Cycles:
On-board Fault Detection System
The on-board diagnostic system has two stages to fault detection. When a fault is detected, the DSM (Diagnostic Status Manager) raises a flag to indicate that a fault is present and increments a counter. The counter checks the number of instances that the fault is noted. For example, if there is a fault in the crankshaft position sensor, the counter will increment its count each time the crankshaft
turns through 360°, provided the fault is still present.
When the count begins, the fault is detected but not confirmed. If the fault continues to be detected and the count reaches a pre-determined threshold, the fault becomes confirmed. If the fault is an emissions related fault or a serious malfunction affecting engine
performance, a DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) and freeze frame data will be logged in the ECM's memory and the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) on the motorcycle instrument panel is illuminated. Once a fault is confirmed, the number of warm-up cycles made by the engine is counted. If the fault clears, the warm-up cycle counter will extinguish the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) at a pre determined count, and erase the DTC and freeze frame data from the ECM memory at another (higher) count. A single warm-up cycle is deemed to have taken place when the following criteria have been met:
- The coolant temperature must be raised to 72*C or more.
- The coolant temperature must have risen by 23*C or more from its start temperature, when 72*C is reached.
- A controlled power-down sequence must take place.
Note:
When a fault has been rectified, the MIL will remain illuminated until sufficient non-fault warm-up cycles have taken place to turn it off. The MIL will be immediately extinguished if, after first rectifying the fault, the DTC (diagnostic trouble code) that caused the MIL
illumination is erased from the ECM memory using the Triumph diagnostic software.
Note:
In most cases, when a fault is detected, the engine management system will revert to a 'limp-home' mode. In this mode, the engine will still function though the performance and fuel economy may be marginally affected. In some cases, the rider may not notice any appreciable difference from normal operation.
|
|
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
 -x-  -x- 
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 12:49 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: davetac1) | | | davetac1 wrote:
Now regarding this hose that falls off thing:Did any of you guys that had this problem have your machine serviced by a dealer previous to this happening??? Dave!!! |
|
First and foremost - it didn't happen to me, but to a friend of mine.
His bike WAS serviced by the dealer.
The connection came loose while on a trip to the south of Spain!
He didn't know of this 'Special Feature' that the Thunderbird has 
He called the dealer hoping they could shed some light on it before he called the recovery people.
Naturally the dealer knew from the symptoms what it could be and told him where to look and what to do. Fixed in a matter of minutes and an international phone call!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| EnGage | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 14/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,155 | | Location | : | Grand Rapids, MI, United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 15:06 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: Birdy68) | | | Birdy68 wrote:
|
You have to run through a set amount of 'Warm-up Cycles'.
The amount of warmup cycles depends on the fault at hand.
To quote the service manual regarding the Warm-Up Cycles:
| |
|
That is consistent with my observation. I threw a code when re-installing my heated grips on my new t-bars by turning the key to "on" to test the heated grips. I did this before the tank and instrument cluster were re-installed and turning the key to on without the cluster will throw a code. Light stayed on for three warm-up cycles then cleared.
| | Post edited by EnGage on 18 Oct 2010 - 15:07 |
|
|
|
| BaltoThunder | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 43 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 21:05 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: EnGage) | | | OK, just did the twelve minute tune, engine light is still on, but this is the only full warmup since I fixed the problem. Any chance the next couple of rides will clear it, or did the distance I rode it while it was fouled put it beyond the point of self cancelation?
| Ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth!
2nd Officer Harbor Chapter #215 Southern Cruisers Riding Club
|
|
|
|
| HooRad | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 19/01/2010 | | Posts | : | 280 | | Location | : | Richmond, VA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 18 Oct 2010 - 22:15 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: BaltoThunder) | | | It cleared after a few rides for me. Can't remember how many. 2 or 3. It goes away eventually. I wouldn't worry. I rode mine for 150 miles while it was wonky. No lasting effect, as far as I can tell.
| Not likely to die of natural causes. At least I hope not.
|
|
|
|
| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
|
| | Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 01:03 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: HooRad) | | | What I'm thinking about regarding you guys with the problem,is it's dealer caused.I have discovered that many of the Triumph dealerships don't have the proper tools.So they cut corners and screw up the customers machine in the process.I ordered a few tools from my local stealership 8 or 10 weeks ago and STILL haven't got em yet.The stealer says they're on back order.So I asked what they use and they said whatever will work.Well sometimes that's alright,while other times, it's not.My point:The dealer is causing the problem.After reading about this problem,I checked mine and they are all the way on and tight.So the only way they'll fall off is if they're disturbed or not put back on correctly.Dave!!!
|
|
|
|
| HooRad | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 19/01/2010 | | Posts | : | 280 | | Location | : | Richmond, VA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 01:17 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: davetac1) | | | Not sure about that. Mine happened after a big backfire that I felt under my a$$. I suspect that it caused so much back pressure it blew the MAP sensor clean off. It hasn't since I got the Hog Slayers and TOR tune and no further backfires. There's no reason that I know of for any mechanic to have been messing around under the tank in front of the throttle bodies. Just my $.02.
| Not likely to die of natural causes. At least I hope not.
|
|
|
|
| BaltoThunder | | Set | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/10/2009 | | Posts | : | 43 | | Location | : | United States |
|
| | Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 02:59 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: HooRad) | | | Same thing with the backfire here. I thought it killed the air pressure sensor in the airbox. Never thought to look for a vacuum line....
| Ride, shoot straight, and speak the truth!
2nd Officer Harbor Chapter #215 Southern Cruisers Riding Club
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 08:47 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: BaltoThunder) | | |
BaltoThunder wrote:
Same thing with the backfire here. I thought it killed the air pressure sensor in the airbox. Never thought to look for a vacuum line.... |
|
And I'm sure your stealer (read 'dealer') was looking forward to selling you a new pressure sensor + hourly working rate!!!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| DizzE | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 12/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 3,141 | | Location | : | Sunnyvale, CA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 14:26 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: Birdy68) | | | It's funny too. If you google, throttle body back fire.....it's caused by loss of vacuum sensing.
|
|
|
|
| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
|
| | Posted : 19 Oct 2010 - 18:16 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: DizzE) | | | Because the dealer wasn't working around the gas tank area,doesn't mean that something did not get disturbed in the process.The fact is,that more often than not, the tank has to be raised in order to access certain components located under or near it.And when the mechanic does this,and if he's not carefull, a problem could be inadvertantly caused.Follow me?? Dave!!!
| | Post edited by davetac1 on 19 Oct 2010 - 18:20 |
|
|
|
| CornerBanger | | Jupiter | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 07/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,113 | | Location | : | Charleston, SC, United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 12:26 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: davetac1) | | | Just another piece to the pie. My bike started smelling like fuel a while ago (when in a closed space for a while). I thought it was just the vapor/breather tube venting and ignored it because I could not find any leaks or wet spots. Well, fast forward to this past weekend. I decided to go hunting for it (the smell/cause). I took off the tank and started inspecting, guess what I found? The map sensor to the right cylinder was mounted upside down. I pulled the vacuum line off and it was full of fuel, as was the sensor. Once I purged the fuel from the line and the sensor, and of course remounted the sensor correctly the smell vanished... Piss poor quality control from the factory.
| There are those who own and there are those who ride! 
2010 Thunderbird
2007 Kawi KX250F
2010 Kawi KX85 (My boy's ride)
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 12:31 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: CornerBanger) | | |
CornerBanger wrote:
Just another piece to the pie. My bike started smelling like fuel a while ago (when in a closed space for a while). |
|
I can always smell fuel once I stop the 'Bird.
I think I'll have a little look into your findings!
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| CornerBanger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 07/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,113 | | Location | : | Charleston, SC, United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 12:55 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: Birdy68) | | |
Birdy68 wrote:
CornerBanger wrote:
Just another piece to the pie. My bike started smelling like fuel a while ago (when in a closed space for a while). |
|
I can always smell fuel once I stop the 'Bird.
I think I'll have a little look into your findings!
|
|
Maybe the same worker installed your sensor... LOL
| There are those who own and there are those who ride!
2010 Thunderbird
2007 Kawi KX250F
2010 Kawi KX85 (My boy's ride)
|
|
|
|
| Thatch | | Thor | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 24/06/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,655 | | Location | : | Savannah, GA, United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 13:07 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: Birdy68) | | | Birdy68 wrote:
I can always smell fuel once I stop the 'Bird.
|
|
Now that you mention that. I guess I do as well. I never attributed it to anything, just 'bike smell' and never had any sort of leaking that I could see. Besides, I love that smell. That's like guy Potpourri.
In fact that brings me to one of my observations, or 'Thatchisms' -
Why are perfumes, men's and women's made the way they are. Why do women put flower smelling stuff on and men put on bull moose essence? If the goal is to attract the opposite sex wouldn't you put on what they like? I mean give me a woman that smells like bacon or gasoline and I'm in heaven, beer goggles are one thing but give me 'bacon nose' and that could be one ugly girl and I'm not sure I'd care. Of course I'm not looking forward wearing 'sundew lavender essence' but if it bags me a woman wearing 'fried chicken and gasoline' I'd damn well do it.
Ok, back to the discussion at hand. Just had to get that off my chest.
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 13:31 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: Thatch) | | | 
It'd work well for me if she had 'Bacon, Egg & Fried Bread'
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|
|
| CornerBanger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 07/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,113 | | Location | : | Charleston, SC, United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 15:33 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: Birdy68) | | | Now for me, a woman that smelt like burning rubber and race gas would do the trick....
| There are those who own and there are those who ride!
2010 Thunderbird
2007 Kawi KX250F
2010 Kawi KX85 (My boy's ride)
|
|
|
|
| mat1600 | | Thunderbird | |  | | Reg. Date | : | 06/03/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,596 | | Location | : | Bridlington, Democratic Independant State of Yorkshire, United Kingdom |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 20:42 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: CornerBanger) | | | A fine blend of hops ,aviation fuel and leather mmmmmm........
| My first natural instinct is to breathe. My second is to evade tax's.
|
|
|
|
| davetac1 | | Thunderbird | | | Reg. Date | : | 06/09/2010 | | Posts | : | 8,379 | | Location | : | Haverhill, Ma., United States |
|
| | Posted : 20 Oct 2010 - 20:50 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: CornerBanger) | | | A couple weeks ago I suddenly noticed a gas smell as I was driving along. Couldn't figure out why or what happened except for the fact that I had just gased up.Well DUH!! Come to find out,some nit wit forgot to tighten the cap all the way,that is until it clicks.Double DUH!!.A mistake I won't be makin again anytime soon.lol lol Dave!!!
|
|
|
|
| CornerBanger | | Jupiter | | | | Reg. Date | : | 07/07/2010 | | Posts | : | 1,113 | | Location | : | Charleston, SC, United States |
|
| | Posted : 21 Oct 2010 - 12:24 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: mat1600) | | |
mat1600 wrote:
A fine blend of hops ,aviation fuel and leather mmmmmm........ |
|
Nitro Methane on her nipples...
| There are those who own and there are those who ride!
2010 Thunderbird
2007 Kawi KX250F
2010 Kawi KX85 (My boy's ride)
|
|
|
|
| Birdy68 | | Thor | | | | Reg. Date | : | 16/07/2009 | | Posts | : | 3,352 | | Location | : | Bad Zurzach, Aargau, Switzerland |
|
| | Posted : 21 Oct 2010 - 12:31 Post title : Re: Backfire Debacle.... (Re: mat1600) | | | mat1600 wrote:
... leather ...... |
|
How the hell did I forget that on my cocktail-mix list.... 
| Birdy68
-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-x-
Leave the pork pies for now - get the sausage rolls while they're hot!
-x- -x-
more info at Fuelly.com
|
|
|